I skimmed it and will read the rest later. If I read him correctly, he is saying “fiscal” inflationary policy as opposed to the Fed’s “monetary” inflationary policy (currently in mothballs). I agree with that premise and as you know have been mentioning the fiscal side of the equation in NFTRH. It’s super interesting, viewing this push/pull tug of war between monetary and fiscal. Thanks for the link.
Gary September 14, 2023
John, I just finished the article and I have to say it is brilliant. I don’t necessarily agree with everything RN said, but most of it is completely viable. The way he lays it out implies less volatility (social and financial) than I think we will encounter in the next few years. But overall, that is one hell of a sound thinker. I’ve heard the name, but never knew who he was. * I am a chart guy who has evolved my charting in combo with macro data to try to detect the very things that he lays out. It’s stunning how many of the concepts rhyme. Thanks again for that link. Highly recommended.
Paul September 13, 2023
John, thanks for the Napier link.
“… the power to control the creation of money has moved from central banks to governments.”
Fedgov’s response to covid was the pivot and proof of the turn Napier sees: loan forbearance, stimulus checks, special tax refunds, etc etc etc, with more to come — these are *direct* monetary transmissions *directly* from fedgov to consumers, bypassing central banks and the banking system. The Commies in Tubman DF will print like there’s no tomorrow unless *stopped*.
Gary September 13, 2023
But the question is, who stops them, a financial market rebellion (in progress w/ yields) or a rebellion with live people and weaponry?
Gary September 13, 2023
Another key consideration is that the Fed always inflated under cover of supposed deflation. The question is, will the government have the same paranoia about public perception or will they simply buy the public off again. In other words, a deflation scare sure would scare up more make work programs. That’s what we’re running on now, since the Fed abdicated. Does the government give a flying fuck about perception??
Paul September 13, 2023
“the question is, who stops them”
Napier says they can’t be stopped, government “wins,” central banks are “impotent.”
Maybe, maybe not. Very *real* tension exists currently between J. Powell at the Fed and J. Yellen at Treasury.
Also, some kind of anti-woke thermidorian reaction against the radical revolutionaries may be brewing off stage.
(A comment thread is probably not the best place to get into this, so … we’ll just have to wait to see what happens.)
Paul September 13, 2023
“Does the government give a flying f**k about perception?”
My read of the past six years, especially the past two years, heck the past two months — no, the regime, er govt, doesn’t give a crap about public perception.
Armen September 14, 2023
Why can’t we have both? Meaning stag into 2023 and abrupt change to deflation sometime in 2024. Deflation triggered by credit event will occur when critical mass of borrowed money at ZIRP or near needs to be refinanced at 5% or so.
Gary September 14, 2023
I think that the Stag, much like Goldilocks, will be transitional. The question then becomes does it all just come apart at the seams into a down the drain deflation or an ever more intense inflation with government fighting deflation tooth and nail? As long as the people have confidence in the conventional way of doing things and the current system, they (gov’t) have the power. That is why Trump was so disappointing to me. We had a chance to have a real insurgent in there and instead got a cartoon character, cultural icon. * Anyway, I would not discount von Mises if the government becomes desperate enough in trying to inflate its debts away.
Armen September 14, 2023
Stag, then von Mises extremely unlikely. Still very unlikely, but more realistic imho, is that crack-up boom happens after one of two: 1. Loss of war with irreversible shift in global power, (chances between 0 and -0). 2. Internal unrest, unraveling of the social contract – people lose jobs, get angry, establishment forced to bribe peasants. Actually this has a chance greater than zero. But in this, still unlikely, case deflation comes first. Most likely, imho is deflation followed with another business cycle. Although with leaderships like current (I don’t mean just figureheads but generally quality of political establishment – both sides), anything has a chance of greater than 0.
Gary September 14, 2023
“anything has a chance of greater than 0″… it’s Wonderland, after all. That’s why this site and service are so named. It’s all on the table. But IMO the path of least resistance is interim deflation. That is the license authorities have used in order to inflate. * Interim though. Authorities will not stop inflating by various means until they are forced to by the bond market or the pitchfork. The problem being the 2022 rupture of the secular trend in L/T bond yields. It’s going to have some effect on what has been inflationary business as usual for decades. Logically, it indicated intensified inflation problems. But again, I agree about the chances of an interim deflation scare to kick the whole thing off.
Paul September 14, 2023
Janet Yellen is a MMTer. What’s odds do you give of Yellen’s delivering UBI, bleak reparations, student loan jubilee, blue state “sanctuary” bailout, and much $worse post-Our Democracy 2024? Some combination, I say, is 99% certain. Where’s the “money” coming from to pay for it all?
“… or the pitchfork.” They’ll be no pitchforks. If I learned anything since 2016, only lefty is allowed to protest in America.
Gary September 14, 2023
Yellen is an MMTer and TMMer… total market manipulator. It’s a cult. Cue my Outer Limits shtick, except that the government is fiscally picking up where the Fed left off. “We will [try to] control…” * The issue I felt in my gut from 2016 on is that the irate public picked the wrong pitchfork. I felt like Trump was a cartoon character spouting what the public’s common denominator wanted to hear. He was not a real insurgent. That was a crying shame. In a society full of sincere and intelligent people who want to do the right thing, we sadly have ignorance on a mass scale and that ignorance elects utter clowns on both sides of the aisle. * IMO its a cultural thing. Maybe how societies end, through sloth and hubris. Dumbing down collectively until the thing just wheezes and rolls over. Both sides of our supposed political arena are disgusting to me. Government is government and it is getting more insensitively intrusive, regardless of who’s in there.
Armen September 14, 2023
On unrelated matter, oil up, gold down, gold stocks up. Banksters and plunge protection manipulate gold stocks up! :)
Gary September 14, 2023
LOL, Armen. Perfect!
Paul September 14, 2023
“… the irate public picked the wrong pitchfork.”
Was there a better or correct pitchfork on offer in 2016?
“In a society full of sincere and intelligent people who want to do the right thing, we sadly have ….”
Not ignorance, instead no leader.
“Both sides … are disgusting to me.”
You’ll get no argument from me. That’s why some of us call republicans the “Vichy OP,” that is, the Vichy Opposition Party.
Gary September 14, 2023
A) I’d have taken any Republican who was rational and focused on things other than him/herself. B) Non-leaders have been elected largely by ignorance, IMO. Call me elitist if you want, but I am anything but that. I am fatalist and have viewed society as degrading my entire life. Not ignorant. A lunatic maybe. C) What does Vichy mean?
Paul September 14, 2023
“What does Vichy mean?”
Refers to the administrative regime located in the resort town of Vichy, France, during Nazi occupation.
Gary September 14, 2023
They rolled over and said please sir, may I have another?
Bart September 14, 2023
We are at a very similar time just before the tractor was invented at the beginning of the 20th century. Back then, half of the work populace was working in the agricultural sector and most of them lost their job due to this invention. This was what caused the great depression. It took the labor market basically 2-3 generations to re-balance itself.
That being said, there will be plenty of attempts to inflate before we get there. But our outdated financial system combined with the tremendous productivity gains ahead will eventually result in deflation.
Paul September 14, 2023
“rolled over and said please”
Kind of. As vichy opposition, current-era republicans serve the uniparty by “conserving” every left-wing “innovation.” “Whaddya mean, we’ve always been for wide-open borders!” Give it a year or two. Think back over the decades on all the “progress” none of us wanted, didn’t ask for, and certainly never voted for — all these progressive innovations are now standard-issue bullet points of the GOP platform.
Anyway, trees don’t grow to the sky, only ’til they fall over.
Norm September 15, 2023
Food for thought: Any discussion of how the future of our economic landscape plays out must address the two different types of ‘dollars’ … electronic dollar credits and foldable cash. When viewed in this manner there could easily be hyper-inflation of electronic dollar credits and hyper-DEFLATION of the very scarce paper money that simply cannot be printed fast enough.
Comments are closed.
Discover more from Notes From the Rabbit Hole
Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.
Great work as always Gary. You probably encountered this before but I find Russell Napier’s musings on the future interesting: https://themarket.ch/interview/russell-napier-the-world-will-experience-a-capex-boom-ld.7606 Essentially, the govt will control the outcome. 4%-6% annual inflation to reduce debt burden.
I skimmed it and will read the rest later. If I read him correctly, he is saying “fiscal” inflationary policy as opposed to the Fed’s “monetary” inflationary policy (currently in mothballs). I agree with that premise and as you know have been mentioning the fiscal side of the equation in NFTRH. It’s super interesting, viewing this push/pull tug of war between monetary and fiscal. Thanks for the link.
John, I just finished the article and I have to say it is brilliant. I don’t necessarily agree with everything RN said, but most of it is completely viable. The way he lays it out implies less volatility (social and financial) than I think we will encounter in the next few years. But overall, that is one hell of a sound thinker. I’ve heard the name, but never knew who he was.
*
I am a chart guy who has evolved my charting in combo with macro data to try to detect the very things that he lays out. It’s stunning how many of the concepts rhyme. Thanks again for that link. Highly recommended.
John, thanks for the Napier link.
“… the power to control the creation of money has moved from central banks to governments.”
Fedgov’s response to covid was the pivot and proof of the turn Napier sees: loan forbearance, stimulus checks, special tax refunds, etc etc etc, with more to come — these are *direct* monetary transmissions *directly* from fedgov to consumers, bypassing central banks and the banking system. The Commies in Tubman DF will print like there’s no tomorrow unless *stopped*.
But the question is, who stops them, a financial market rebellion (in progress w/ yields) or a rebellion with live people and weaponry?
Another key consideration is that the Fed always inflated under cover of supposed deflation. The question is, will the government have the same paranoia about public perception or will they simply buy the public off again. In other words, a deflation scare sure would scare up more make work programs. That’s what we’re running on now, since the Fed abdicated. Does the government give a flying fuck about perception??
“the question is, who stops them”
Napier says they can’t be stopped, government “wins,” central banks are “impotent.”
Maybe, maybe not. Very *real* tension exists currently between J. Powell at the Fed and J. Yellen at Treasury.
Also, some kind of anti-woke thermidorian reaction against the radical revolutionaries may be brewing off stage.
(A comment thread is probably not the best place to get into this, so … we’ll just have to wait to see what happens.)
“Does the government give a flying f**k about perception?”
My read of the past six years, especially the past two years, heck the past two months — no, the regime, er govt, doesn’t give a crap about public perception.
Why can’t we have both? Meaning stag into 2023 and abrupt change to deflation sometime in 2024. Deflation triggered by credit event will occur when critical mass of borrowed money at ZIRP or near needs to be refinanced at 5% or so.
I think that the Stag, much like Goldilocks, will be transitional. The question then becomes does it all just come apart at the seams into a down the drain deflation or an ever more intense inflation with government fighting deflation tooth and nail? As long as the people have confidence in the conventional way of doing things and the current system, they (gov’t) have the power. That is why Trump was so disappointing to me. We had a chance to have a real insurgent in there and instead got a cartoon character, cultural icon.
*
Anyway, I would not discount von Mises if the government becomes desperate enough in trying to inflate its debts away.
Stag, then von Mises extremely unlikely. Still very unlikely, but more realistic imho, is that crack-up boom happens after one of two: 1. Loss of war with irreversible shift in global power, (chances between 0 and -0). 2. Internal unrest, unraveling of the social contract – people lose jobs, get angry, establishment forced to bribe peasants. Actually this has a chance greater than zero. But in this, still unlikely, case deflation comes first. Most likely, imho is deflation followed with another business cycle. Although with leaderships like current (I don’t mean just figureheads but generally quality of political establishment – both sides), anything has a chance of greater than 0.
“anything has a chance of greater than 0″… it’s Wonderland, after all. That’s why this site and service are so named. It’s all on the table. But IMO the path of least resistance is interim deflation. That is the license authorities have used in order to inflate.
*
Interim though. Authorities will not stop inflating by various means until they are forced to by the bond market or the pitchfork. The problem being the 2022 rupture of the secular trend in L/T bond yields. It’s going to have some effect on what has been inflationary business as usual for decades. Logically, it indicated intensified inflation problems. But again, I agree about the chances of an interim deflation scare to kick the whole thing off.
Janet Yellen is a MMTer. What’s odds do you give of Yellen’s delivering UBI, bleak reparations, student loan jubilee, blue state “sanctuary” bailout, and much $worse post-Our Democracy 2024? Some combination, I say, is 99% certain. Where’s the “money” coming from to pay for it all?
“… or the pitchfork.” They’ll be no pitchforks. If I learned anything since 2016, only lefty is allowed to protest in America.
Yellen is an MMTer and TMMer… total market manipulator. It’s a cult. Cue my Outer Limits shtick, except that the government is fiscally picking up where the Fed left off. “We will [try to] control…”
*
The issue I felt in my gut from 2016 on is that the irate public picked the wrong pitchfork. I felt like Trump was a cartoon character spouting what the public’s common denominator wanted to hear. He was not a real insurgent. That was a crying shame. In a society full of sincere and intelligent people who want to do the right thing, we sadly have ignorance on a mass scale and that ignorance elects utter clowns on both sides of the aisle.
*
IMO its a cultural thing. Maybe how societies end, through sloth and hubris. Dumbing down collectively until the thing just wheezes and rolls over. Both sides of our supposed political arena are disgusting to me. Government is government and it is getting more insensitively intrusive, regardless of who’s in there.
On unrelated matter, oil up, gold down, gold stocks up. Banksters and plunge protection manipulate gold stocks up! :)
LOL, Armen. Perfect!
“… the irate public picked the wrong pitchfork.”
Was there a better or correct pitchfork on offer in 2016?
“In a society full of sincere and intelligent people who want to do the right thing, we sadly have ….”
Not ignorance, instead no leader.
“Both sides … are disgusting to me.”
You’ll get no argument from me. That’s why some of us call republicans the “Vichy OP,” that is, the Vichy Opposition Party.
A) I’d have taken any Republican who was rational and focused on things other than him/herself. B) Non-leaders have been elected largely by ignorance, IMO. Call me elitist if you want, but I am anything but that. I am fatalist and have viewed society as degrading my entire life. Not ignorant. A lunatic maybe. C) What does Vichy mean?
“What does Vichy mean?”
Refers to the administrative regime located in the resort town of Vichy, France, during Nazi occupation.
They rolled over and said please sir, may I have another?
We are at a very similar time just before the tractor was invented at the beginning of the 20th century. Back then, half of the work populace was working in the agricultural sector and most of them lost their job due to this invention. This was what caused the great depression. It took the labor market basically 2-3 generations to re-balance itself.
That being said, there will be plenty of attempts to inflate before we get there. But our outdated financial system combined with the tremendous productivity gains ahead will eventually result in deflation.
“rolled over and said please”
Kind of. As vichy opposition, current-era republicans serve the uniparty by “conserving” every left-wing “innovation.” “Whaddya mean, we’ve always been for wide-open borders!” Give it a year or two. Think back over the decades on all the “progress” none of us wanted, didn’t ask for, and certainly never voted for — all these progressive innovations are now standard-issue bullet points of the GOP platform.
Anyway, trees don’t grow to the sky, only ’til they fall over.
Food for thought: Any discussion of how the future of our economic landscape plays out must address the two different types of ‘dollars’ … electronic dollar credits and foldable cash. When viewed in this manner there could easily be hyper-inflation of electronic dollar credits and hyper-DEFLATION of the very scarce paper money that simply cannot be printed fast enough.